Newcomers ahoy!

Hey there, just a brief introduction:

As you can see, this forum has been active for some time now. Many things discussed here are no longer relevant, but others may prove to be interesting topics. Feel free to look around and resurrect old discussions (we are eco-friendly here and love recycling threads :stuck_out_tongue:).

There’s no version of Dagon currently uploaded. However, the new one is coming VERY soon, and this time I mean it. Maybe tomorrow even. So much has changed and improved, I’m tempted to call it a 1.0 alpha, and just a few steps short of a feature complete beta. The idea is to decide among all of us what remains to be done before finalising the 1.0 cycle.

One last thing: those of you registered on GitHub, please let me know your username for early access to the engine source code.

Stay tuned!

I live by this quote:
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. Douglas Adams

Welcome to all that dare to enter :smiley:

Yikes, so much going on here!! :fainting: Somehow my email forum notifcations were off (last one I got was in April until yesterday). There was me thinking things were quiet. Man, I have so much reading to catch up on! Where did the time go?

Anyway, welcome newcomers… and ‘hi’ everyone again! :waving:

Folks, just a heads up here: next week I will be making this forum go fully public. It’s about time we share this amazing little trove of invaluable information with the rest of the world. You will be the face and soul of this forum, being the old timers you are.

So behave, be nice with the newcomers, and let’s make this spot THE place to come to develop cutting edge adventures :stuck_out_tongue:

What? No initiation challenges for them ? I thought this was a cult !

So could we use Dagon in a project visible to the world? I don’t think I’d have time now anyway but Thea was running a rendering challenge and I had thought about a virtual tour on Dagon steroids, sadly the challenge closes on the 15th

Hello,
I just joined today!
Have tried the Asylum teaser, It is GREAT!
That’s what brought me here.

I’d like to try my hands on using the engine. I’ve seen other posts about making stuff and building the code. But can’t find the download section.

How do I get Dagon?
Also, the first post in this page states to contact Agustin with Github details to gain access. How do I do that?

Thanks,
Codeslasher

Hey there Codeslasher!

I’m sorry that you were on hold for so long :oops:

The engine is actually included with the teaser. It’s the Dagon.exe file in fact, and all you need to create games with it is in the package. Make sure you check out the Asylum teaser source code to understand how it works.

As for Github access, let me know your username by PM and I’ll give you privileges.

Cheers!

Ahoy there!

The name’s Luke (Norman), joined the other day.
I’m the guy emailing you Agustin with all the questions haha, apologies if you’re too busy for them.

I shall delve into Dagon tonight and have a go at it. Is there anything I need before I get on it? As I seen you mention privlidges in a previous post.

Thanks guys.

(Wow talk about thread revival haha)

Hey Luke!

Only if you want access to the code. If you want to test the engine, downloading the Asylum teaser will be enough :nod:

Hey,

I’d like to get my hands dirty with Dagon and try throwing in one of my scenes I’ve already made.

I’ve posted this up (literally just then): viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1475

Heya, new here. Just saying hello to all the friendly inmates.

Hi there VonStreff - great to see another new face here! :slight_smile:

Ok, I give up. I’ve searched the forum, read the teaser’s various text files, and consumed about half the contents of Google - not to mention downloaded a dozen or so different types of viewing, editing, and file-converting software - and for the life of me I can’t find a solution to this. I feel a little silly asking about something so basic, and it may well have already been explained somewhere but at this point my brain has turned to slop, so forgive me if it has.

That disclaimer being given…

How on Earth do you view the .tex files? Everything I try just gives me raw text. Now, I may be barking up the wrong tree here but these are the texture files used in-game by the nodes, right? For example, cafeteria1.tex is the panorama used in the starting node, yes? If that’s correct so far then how can I view it as an image? I’ve tried a ton of different programs to either view tex files or convert them into a viewable form, but nothing seems to do what I want. Either that or I just don’t know how to use them.

Incidentally, I don’t know if it matters, but I’m running Windows XP. I mention this because throughout my searches, I noticed that a lot of the people working with tex files were using other (non-Windows) operating systems.

And so long as I’m here asking for help, it would be rude of me not to thank you guys for making this available in the first place. So thanks to Agustín and anyone else who worked on this. I’m fascinated by the engine and the teaser is sweet! :slight_smile:

Hi Tony,
The TEX files are a composite of six images, the six sides of the cubic panorama used for each node. So far as I know, the only way that you can view the “bundle” is with Dagon.

Hey Imari. Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I understand how the panoramas are composed. I read the info about cube maps on the Dagon Wiki. And I realize that, in a way, the engine itself is kind of a “viewer” for these images.

But is there really no way to view them in their “unwrapped” form, if that makes sense? And if not, is there any way to convert them into a viewable image file? As someone who has never done any UV mapping, it can be difficult to get the orientation and distortion of the texture correct, and I think it would be helpful to have a flattened-out panorama as a template for what it needs to look like.

If it can’t be done that’s ok. I’ve spent the last few days scouring the internet for a way to do it and I finally decided to just ask those who are most likely to know. :slight_smile:

Anyway, thanks for the answer. I appreciate your time.

You can render out as a spherical image and view in quite a few flash or QTime viewers, some will take cubic images, Pano2VR can take either spherical or cubic and a few others

Your rendering stills so UV mapping as such isn’t effected, its more placement of the camera that causes distortion, if you look at Asylum the camera is usually in the center of the room and never up close to anything

I just have Dagon setup to load an image set to view, if I’m happy with it I just rename the images :wink: you can also render them at a lower resolution, I usually do a test at 1024 x1024

Hi Tony, welcome to the forum! :bye:

The .tex file format is one specifically created for Dagon. The extension might be a bit misleading since there are other formats with that same ‘.tex’ filename extension that may open in certain image viewers. Agustín basically rolled his own file format for use in the Dagon engine.

There is tool called KSConvert for creating .tex files. As mentioned, each .tex file is made from the 6 stand-alone images of the cube (representing front, back, left, right, up & down - where the 3D scene is rendered with a 90 degree camera lens to make the edges blend into one another seamlessly when they meet). Read more about and download KSConvert here.

Dagon should also able to load the 6 cubemap face images individually (jpg, tga or png supported) although it tends to be a bit slower to walk between nodes compared to using .tex files. The .tex format is basically these 6 images that have been run through a compression routine in order to make them more efficient for use with Dagon.

As far as I’m aware, there is no way to output the 6 images from the .tex file (unwrapped, as you were saying).

I wouldn’t worry about unwrapping the .tex files, though, if you’re trying to understand how they are made and used. Creating the 6 images is a lot more straightforward than you may think. In fact, without even going near a 3D package, you could literally:

  • Load up MSPaint and create 6 2048x2048 images
  • Draw the numbers on each image to represent that face
  • Save (as JPG, TGA or PNGs)
  • Run them through KSConvert to create the tex file
  • Use in your Dagon code.

This, at least, would give you a very simple understanding of how cubemaps are implemented. Once you’re happy with how they work, jump into the 3D renders (shadowphile wrote a pretty handy tool for creating the necessary images using the open source 3D app Blender - see here).

Hey guys! I’ve made some progress since my last post. I’ve managed to refine things a bit and I think I’ve got the basic cube map worked out, at least as far as using separate textures goes.

Actually, it turned out to be the field of view that was the problem. I’m rendering in Bryce and for some weird reason, the 90 degree FOV shots just weren’t connecting up properly. It took a crapload of experimentation and minute adjustments, but I finally seem to have them lining up.

For some reason, the ideal angle appears to be 112.54 degrees. This FOV rotated through 90 degree turns seems to create a map that lines up beautifully. I have no idea why. ???

Thanks, Finn! :slight_smile:

Oooooooooh!! Well, that explains a few things! No wonder half the programs I tried gave me an unrecognized filetype error. :-[

Yes, I believe I read about the converter in one of the coding files… or perhaps it was here. Anyway, it sounds familiar. Thanks for the link. Now that I’ve gotten the texture to fit the node, that will probably be my next experiment. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yep, that’s how I did it. Although, as I said above, the 90 degree field didn’t work in Bryce for some reason. It had to be widened significantly in order to make the edges match… which… still kind of baffles me.

[quote=“Finn, post:18, topic:424”]As far as I’m aware, there is no way to output the 6 images from the .tex file (unwrapped, as you were saying).

I wouldn’t worry about unwrapping the .tex files, though, if you’re trying to understand how they are made and used.[/quote]

I guess it’s no longer necessary anyway, since in the interim, I basically figured it out. I think part of what was confusing me was that I thought the reason they weren’t lining up was because I was rendering each cube face as a flat square, whereas the cube map diagram on the Wiki appears to have curved faces…

https://github.com/Senscape/Dagon/wiki/All-About-Cube-maps

So, I figured that, at some point, I would have to not only map the node, but actually convert the texture from Euclidean to non-Euclidean geometry to make it conform correctly to the curvature. And I really had no idea how to do this. That’s why I wanted to see what the “unwrapped” .tex files looked like.

And you know what the worst thing is? In looking at that page again, something has just hit me like a ton of bricks. The curved surface is the projection! The center cube (with flat faces) is the actual texture map! Argh! I’ve been interpreting it the wrong way round! No fraggin’ wonder I’ve been so confused! >:(

That’s just unbelievable. One tiny misunderstanding and I needlessly complicate something that’s actually very simple. Texturing a regular, flat-faced cube? Even I can do that! :-[

Ah yes, I’m pretty sure I’ve read about the Blender tool on here too! If only my head weren’t so foggy. The funny thing is, I’ve been reading so much about this over the last few days that everything you guys say seems vaguely familiar to me. Heh! I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. :smiley:

Anyway, thanks for the link and the info, Finn.

And thanks to everyone for the help. It’s appreciated.

Oh, and in Bryce be sure to turn of “Link Sun To View” and lens flares as they will also cause the cube map’s seams to show.

We don’t have a Bryce tutorial for making cube maps on the Wiki. Maybe once you work this out, you could write it? :slight_smile: